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WORLDWIDE Chapter 149 Message Board Forum Index » nawcc issues and ideas » and it rages on on Horological Misc on the NAWCC MB
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and it rages on on Horological Misc on the NAWCC MB
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 11:13 am Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 26201
Location: Boston, Ma




https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/discussion-of-published-auctions-before-sale.160422/

AGAIN, we have an insider and MB czar, Tom Terrific, who wants to shove his opinion down the members' throats................."Discussion of published auctions before sale."

MORE AUCTION HOUSE PIMPING?

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 1:28 pm Reply with quote
geno
Chapter Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 1676




Any discussion of auction items would be basically about 3 parts, Originality, Condition and Value ,good luck trying to nail all 3 with many different voices giving their opinion or maybe having secret agendas. Geno
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 3:49 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 26201
Location: Boston, Ma




Why should this even be public--how about Geno's web sales offerings, Lance's lists, FF's ebay and web site offerings and sales discussions all on the same threads?

If to discuss at all, let's make it even steven--FOR EVERYONE!!!

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 5:53 pm Reply with quote
S Mercer
Chapter Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 1938




Just maybe Tom has an ulterior motive?

Post # 82 from that thread:

Quote:
My personal point of view is a little different since I feel my collection is reaching maturity and I am old enough that I need to think about distribution rather than collection. My motivation now is to ensure that my collections will be treasured by someone and that the field of horology will remain interesting to future generations.


Quote:
The personal collecting equation is whether the overall improvement in the perception of value of horological artifacts does more for the value of your collection (in whatever ways you determine value, not necessarily monetary) than the advantage you gain in any number of purchases. The suppression of information when you are selling is, in my opinion, unethical although it is clearly pretty rampant in the market.

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Steve

Chapter 100
Chapter 149 Member # 83
Waltham Model 83 Watches
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 6:00 pm Reply with quote
S Mercer
Chapter Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 1938




And why did he even start the thread on the message board?

From post #139

Quote:
I thought I made the origin of this idea abundantly clear. The idea is my idea which I have discussed with some auctioneers, the E.D. and the Chair of the BOD.


Quote:
I have offered to make a presentation on it to our Board of Directors at their Annual Meeting in Springfield this June.

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Steve

Chapter 100
Chapter 149 Member # 83
Waltham Model 83 Watches
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keep collecting/auction participation pure
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 8:53 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 26201
Location: Boston, Ma




MORE and TYPICAL insiderism & self interest at the assoc.

IT IS REVOLTING!

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Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:23 am Reply with quote
Ben_hutcherson
Chapter Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Posts: 2342
Location: Frankfort, KY




And now apparently it's considered "out of line" to talk to BOD members about the proposal that has not been provided to the general membership and that the originator won't provide!

I am absolutely disgusted about how the person forcing this issue is handling it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:21 pm Reply with quote
HOWARD
Chapter Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 115




Members please read the topic "Discussion of published auctions before sale"
on the nawcc mb area "Horological Misc."

Apparently the association bullies continue to want to run the show at every avenue of operations.

As Ben alluded to above the nawcc is lacking operational transparency and is afraid of BOD discussion. I guess that those running the show think that have all of the answers, and that all of the common folk members don't have a brain!

Pre auction discussions is free advertising, pure and simple.

Howard

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Howard
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:17 pm Reply with quote
Ben_hutcherson
Chapter Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Posts: 2342
Location: Frankfort, KY




FWIW, I spoke at length today with Tim Orr, who reported that he also hadn't seen the proposal.

I left the conversation with Tim feeling good about this-he seemed to think that the idea was dead in the water because something else was discussed a couple of years ago and legal counsel advised that even a lawsult without merit that the NAWCC won would cost more than any small revenue that might come from this.

We discussed my concerns at length, and I got the impression that Tim at least is not in favor of the idea, although he too wants to see the entire proposal.

I've had some communication with other BOD members, and the general feel I'm getting toward this is that it's not being overly well received.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:57 pm Reply with quote
StephanG
Friend of 149
Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 4712
Location: Melbourne Australia




I think there are only 2 options.
Full open discussion about everything or no discussion.

Full open discussion should include everything and everyone.
If someone says this is worth x someone else can say bullshit.

The alternative is no discussion and you can't stop it as it will always continue in the background.

I often see this partial discussion touted but saying something is not worth x or is worth x is no different than saying it is rare or it is not rare or it is completely original or it has been switched.

ANY positive or negative comment will effect price so why not just be open and talk about price like we do about any other aspect of something.

It is the secrecy and the behind hand whispers that cause the problems.

At least if someone states HIS OPINION openly and on the record someone else can take him to task over it and we can, hopefully, have an open and honest exchange of opinion.

Doesn't really matter who is right as long as everyone gets a say.

Then it is Buyer Beware.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:11 pm Reply with quote
Ben_hutcherson
Chapter Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Posts: 2342
Location: Frankfort, KY




And of course the full details are still being kept secret from the membership at large, but since Tom M. is "sacred" it's not appropriate to call him out for conducting it as such.

This entire mess smells very, very bad from my perspective, and I'm sick of the way Tom is acting over it.
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no transparency at the nawcc-same problem different faces
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:17 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 26201
Location: Boston, Ma




Like a true snake in the grass AND the way the assoc. has operated for years--either you are an insider (officer/operative/bully) or an outsider (lowly dues paying member).

NOTHING EVER CHANGES!

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:28 pm Reply with quote
pocwatjim
Chapter Member
Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 792
Location: Decatur, TN.




Jon,

The thing you are missing is that we have 2 Chapter 149 members on the BOD and John & Rhett will be able to guide this committee down the road to common sense.

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Jim Haney
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:57 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 26201
Location: Boston, Ma




And, we shall all be watching..........and waiting.

BTW, Cote was bringing various good ideas from 149 to the 2 day BOD meeting--where are the reports of those issues?

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:06 pm Reply with quote
Jon
Chapter President
Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 26201
Location: Boston, Ma




Jim, no responses and no agenda items that I have seen.

This discussion idea of pre auctions has to one of the most stupid ideas ever in the annals of the assoc and the MB.

Does anyone know the thoughts of our two member BODs?

Maybe all BODs need to be lobbied on this one?

_________________
Jon "the truth" Hanson
Founder and President of Chapter 149--the leading horological collectors' club!
American Horologe Co -- America's Most Respected Name
SUPPORT ETHICAL PRACTICES IN HOROLOGY--Keep watches original--DO NOT SWITCH, PART OUT OR "CREATE" PW abortions!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
and it rages on on Horological Misc on the NAWCC MB
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